Grizzly Report: We Are At War.
It pains me to say it. There was a sliver of me that wanted to believe my President when he told me that Islam is the 'Religion of Peace.'
We attended the meeting sponsored by Cair-Philly at U.Penn. The panelists included Sofia Memon and Adeeba Al Zaman from CairPhilly, Dr. Khalid A.Y. Blankinship, Dr. Mazhar Rishi (scroll to near end of article and see Dr. Rishi's statement, Imam Isa Abdul Mateen, and Rachel Lawton.
Rachel Lawton was there to say that pestering someone in the workplace about their religion after they have communicated that they do not want to discuss religion is harassment and will be pursued.
Ms. Memon and Ms. Al Zaman seemed to be reasonable at first - especially Ms. Sofia Memon who hesitantly stated that if the violence by muslims worldwide has not been condemned than it should be. That's the closest we could get to a condemnation. She was almost apologetic when saying it - but God bless her she did try. She tried hard when she responded that non-violent dialogue is much preferred when a hooded and scarved mother of 6 came to the microphone with her most recent addition to the brood and advocated violence. (Atleast I think it was a 'she' - who could tell? She was hiding inside those robes.) Ms. Memon also stated, though, that we must accept their free speech and that we are 'oppressing' it. They were terribly nervous about any possible dissent and I can't say that I blame them. I'm sure the radicals don't approve of their western wear or the fact that their hair is showing. Better watch those necks, ladies!
Which brings us to Blankinship. What a kook. The most he had to add to the discussion was that the Danes are Nazis and the 'Bush lied-People died' type of claptrap that we are used to seeing the leftists spout. Oh yes. He also said that the Pentagon won't hire Arabic speakers or even persons who express an interest in learning Arabic and in fact will break down their doors in the middle of the night and seize their computers. He liked to stab his finger at the audience and look angry and nasty. Not surprising that he's the head of a department in Academia, is it? You're a KOOK, Blankinship! That's my opinion and I am proud to state it.
Dr. Mazhar Rishi - maybe he is one of the 'moderates' that we so often hear about? He started his 5 minutes with a quote from the Koran about how Christians and Jews along with Muslims are eligible to get to heaven. A nice man who I would dearly love to sit and have a cup of coffee with - he atleast seemed open to having a discussion. One thing that bothered me is that he attempted to sell dhimmitude as a wonderful thing. Wrongo Fu$....well - I'll behave. Don't try to sell me a lie Dr. Rishi. I will not subject my daughters to Islam nor will I allow dhimmitude. I think you will find millions of Americans like me who adhere to what Patton once said. We'll do our part in making sure that the enemy is the one dying for the glory of Islam. I'm not sure that Dr. Rishi is behind the push for an Islamic States of America but he sure did try to convince me that Muslims in the past have been very fair and loving with their subjugation of the dhimmis.
Saving the best for last I present Imam Isa Abdul Mateen. What an angry man - and a man very concerned about OPPRESSION - so concerned that he shouted about it atleast twice - possibly three times. According to our vaunted Imam - all terror is justified because they are OPPRESSED! He compared beheading innocents, torching everything in sight, threatening more 9/11's, and knifing bicyclists to death to --- the Boston Tea Party. Swear to God - he did. I believe it was the Imam who quoted a Bible verse to justify blasphemers being put to death. The Imam appeared to have been followed by several bearded lackeys who stood at the back of the room and would shout out now and then in support of his position. One of them went to the microphone to challenge Dr. Rishi on his contention that Christians and Jews would make it to heaven. Dr. Rishi explained that this was not the time for theological discussions and the ladies from CAIR became very nervous with waving arms and anxious twitchings and explained that we would have to go to the next question.
The first person from the audience who stood up to the microphone - I just have to comment on him. I have never, EVER in my life seen such a display of bootlicking, ass-kissing and groveling admiration. I almost vomited. I almost laughed out loud at him. What a yo-yo. Honey -- a piece of advice. It doesn't matter how much you kiss their asses, they will still kill you. Witness Europe - the countries who kissed the most Islamic ass are having the biggest problems with their Muslim populations.
On to our woman, Jen. Jen - you sounded good at the microphone and it's a shame that the Muslims did not want to hear a word that you said. You asked valid questions - one of which was 'How do you expect us to embrace Islam when all we see is the violence perpetrated by Muslims? The violence does not serve your cause well.' No answer. Nope. In fact - they hated the question SO much that our esteemed Professor Blankinship was stabbing that finger of his in the air toward you and started yelling about the Danes being Nazis. You asked about Muslims who contend that they cannot take a Christian or a Jew as a friend. The great Imam stated that he encourages the Muslim communities to set up their own services and governments within the wider American community. Enter Ms. Memon to soften the blow. She used the examples of Christians and Jews setting up support systems. She also said that there are different interpretations of the text about Christian and Jewish friends in the Koran and that when read one way - it means one thing, another way it means another. You tried to make your point and ask your questions but you were shouted down. The ladies from CAIR once again started with the arm waving and beseeching everyone to be calm - and insisting that it was time to go to the next question.
They did not want to 'dialogue'.
Another one of ours was at the end of the line with some literature. The ladies from CAIR decided that the question time would have to be cut off before he could get to the microphone. The told him to sit down.
Did you know that minorities have no voice in Western Societies? Well - our panel believes that.
Did you know that peaceful protests do not work and that is why violence MUST be resorted to? Hmm. Our prolifically breeding robed one believes this.
Did you know that there is a conspiracy by the Rand Corporation and the Media against Muslims? Talk to the Professor about that one.
Did you know that we are 'insensitive, insulting AND blasphemous'? Mr. Imam? Sir? Islam is not my religion so do not try to apply your interpretation of blasphemy to me.
Did you know that free speech does not give us the right to 'defame' their Prophet? You must think that you are in another country.
Did you know that Massachusetts has a blasphemy law? It is being held up by these Muslims to justify killing anyone who says anything bad about Islam.
Did you know about all of those thousands of Iraqi children that died because of the sanctions? It was quite a moment to see the looks on their faces when several in our group and I said quite loudly that it was Saddam Hussein who killed those children. They were shocked to hear it. Have they never heard ANYONE speak back to them? I am feeling like they are provoking me. They are!
This is going to get very ugly. I have seen the face of the enemy and they are right here amongst us.
God Bless America - God Save the Republic.
We attended the meeting sponsored by Cair-Philly at U.Penn. The panelists included Sofia Memon and Adeeba Al Zaman from CairPhilly, Dr. Khalid A.Y. Blankinship, Dr. Mazhar Rishi (scroll to near end of article and see Dr. Rishi's statement, Imam Isa Abdul Mateen, and Rachel Lawton.
Rachel Lawton was there to say that pestering someone in the workplace about their religion after they have communicated that they do not want to discuss religion is harassment and will be pursued.
Ms. Memon and Ms. Al Zaman seemed to be reasonable at first - especially Ms. Sofia Memon who hesitantly stated that if the violence by muslims worldwide has not been condemned than it should be. That's the closest we could get to a condemnation. She was almost apologetic when saying it - but God bless her she did try. She tried hard when she responded that non-violent dialogue is much preferred when a hooded and scarved mother of 6 came to the microphone with her most recent addition to the brood and advocated violence. (Atleast I think it was a 'she' - who could tell? She was hiding inside those robes.) Ms. Memon also stated, though, that we must accept their free speech and that we are 'oppressing' it. They were terribly nervous about any possible dissent and I can't say that I blame them. I'm sure the radicals don't approve of their western wear or the fact that their hair is showing. Better watch those necks, ladies!
Which brings us to Blankinship. What a kook. The most he had to add to the discussion was that the Danes are Nazis and the 'Bush lied-People died' type of claptrap that we are used to seeing the leftists spout. Oh yes. He also said that the Pentagon won't hire Arabic speakers or even persons who express an interest in learning Arabic and in fact will break down their doors in the middle of the night and seize their computers. He liked to stab his finger at the audience and look angry and nasty. Not surprising that he's the head of a department in Academia, is it? You're a KOOK, Blankinship! That's my opinion and I am proud to state it.
Dr. Mazhar Rishi - maybe he is one of the 'moderates' that we so often hear about? He started his 5 minutes with a quote from the Koran about how Christians and Jews along with Muslims are eligible to get to heaven. A nice man who I would dearly love to sit and have a cup of coffee with - he atleast seemed open to having a discussion. One thing that bothered me is that he attempted to sell dhimmitude as a wonderful thing. Wrongo Fu$....well - I'll behave. Don't try to sell me a lie Dr. Rishi. I will not subject my daughters to Islam nor will I allow dhimmitude. I think you will find millions of Americans like me who adhere to what Patton once said. We'll do our part in making sure that the enemy is the one dying for the glory of Islam. I'm not sure that Dr. Rishi is behind the push for an Islamic States of America but he sure did try to convince me that Muslims in the past have been very fair and loving with their subjugation of the dhimmis.
Saving the best for last I present Imam Isa Abdul Mateen. What an angry man - and a man very concerned about OPPRESSION - so concerned that he shouted about it atleast twice - possibly three times. According to our vaunted Imam - all terror is justified because they are OPPRESSED! He compared beheading innocents, torching everything in sight, threatening more 9/11's, and knifing bicyclists to death to --- the Boston Tea Party. Swear to God - he did. I believe it was the Imam who quoted a Bible verse to justify blasphemers being put to death. The Imam appeared to have been followed by several bearded lackeys who stood at the back of the room and would shout out now and then in support of his position. One of them went to the microphone to challenge Dr. Rishi on his contention that Christians and Jews would make it to heaven. Dr. Rishi explained that this was not the time for theological discussions and the ladies from CAIR became very nervous with waving arms and anxious twitchings and explained that we would have to go to the next question.
The first person from the audience who stood up to the microphone - I just have to comment on him. I have never, EVER in my life seen such a display of bootlicking, ass-kissing and groveling admiration. I almost vomited. I almost laughed out loud at him. What a yo-yo. Honey -- a piece of advice. It doesn't matter how much you kiss their asses, they will still kill you. Witness Europe - the countries who kissed the most Islamic ass are having the biggest problems with their Muslim populations.
On to our woman, Jen. Jen - you sounded good at the microphone and it's a shame that the Muslims did not want to hear a word that you said. You asked valid questions - one of which was 'How do you expect us to embrace Islam when all we see is the violence perpetrated by Muslims? The violence does not serve your cause well.' No answer. Nope. In fact - they hated the question SO much that our esteemed Professor Blankinship was stabbing that finger of his in the air toward you and started yelling about the Danes being Nazis. You asked about Muslims who contend that they cannot take a Christian or a Jew as a friend. The great Imam stated that he encourages the Muslim communities to set up their own services and governments within the wider American community. Enter Ms. Memon to soften the blow. She used the examples of Christians and Jews setting up support systems. She also said that there are different interpretations of the text about Christian and Jewish friends in the Koran and that when read one way - it means one thing, another way it means another. You tried to make your point and ask your questions but you were shouted down. The ladies from CAIR once again started with the arm waving and beseeching everyone to be calm - and insisting that it was time to go to the next question.
They did not want to 'dialogue'.
Another one of ours was at the end of the line with some literature. The ladies from CAIR decided that the question time would have to be cut off before he could get to the microphone. The told him to sit down.
Did you know that minorities have no voice in Western Societies? Well - our panel believes that.
Did you know that peaceful protests do not work and that is why violence MUST be resorted to? Hmm. Our prolifically breeding robed one believes this.
Did you know that there is a conspiracy by the Rand Corporation and the Media against Muslims? Talk to the Professor about that one.
Did you know that we are 'insensitive, insulting AND blasphemous'? Mr. Imam? Sir? Islam is not my religion so do not try to apply your interpretation of blasphemy to me.
Did you know that free speech does not give us the right to 'defame' their Prophet? You must think that you are in another country.
Did you know that Massachusetts has a blasphemy law? It is being held up by these Muslims to justify killing anyone who says anything bad about Islam.
Did you know about all of those thousands of Iraqi children that died because of the sanctions? It was quite a moment to see the looks on their faces when several in our group and I said quite loudly that it was Saddam Hussein who killed those children. They were shocked to hear it. Have they never heard ANYONE speak back to them? I am feeling like they are provoking me. They are!
This is going to get very ugly. I have seen the face of the enemy and they are right here amongst us.
God Bless America - God Save the Republic.
posted by Grizzly Mama | 17:55
53 Comments:
It's best not to think about it.
For years and years I've been trying to tell people two things.
First, Islam is nothing more than a cult of personality that claimed legitimacy through the sword. It's as if the "Children of God" and Moses David Berg became the "official" religion of the US/Canada/Mexico. Allah is not a loving god; he is a god you "serve" and, with the correct behavior, get into his good graces.
Second, there is no such thing as a "moderate" Muslim. None. Every one, if pressed to reveal their heart of hearts, will admit Islam should rule the world any way it can.
steve , if we dont think about it , it will be too late ..
Monica ,
They need to be deported all of them ...and I am not being prejudice , its a matter of survival ..
Deport them NOW!
Did you know that Massachusetts has a blasphemy law? It is being held up by these Muslims to justify killing anyone who says anything bad about Islam.
What???
I will send this information to Andrew Whitehead of Anti-CAIR.
No surprises here, were there?
"The great Imam stated that he encourages the Muslim communities to set up their own services and governments within the wider American community."
WTF?! You're in the USA people! Deal with our lily-livered gov't or get the HELL out!
Grizzly Mama,
I posted an excerpt from your article here.
If these are things they said, when they knew you were present. Can you just imagine what they say, when you are not?
Same old same old...
It always boils down to 3 things...
Heed the call
Pay the Jizya
Die
I vote for choice 4..
In the meantime, we need to keep shining sunlight on all these stooges and ginstu wielding salafi zarqoids who use words to obscure what is plain to see.
Islam today IS for better or worse..SALAFI
This is too good, I am linking to you
Does anyone question the wisdom of the 1st Commandment? "Thou shalt have no other god before me."
I would sooner serve no god as to serve allah. Either way, I would assure my destiny - Hell.
Islam is only touted as a religion of peace by those not familiar with the teachings of Mohammed and what the Qur’an has to say about infidels. Islam tolerates total submission dhimmitude as log as it perceives no threat from the subjects. Anyone who believes Islam would accept dhimmitude from a Christian westerner might just as well pick out a grave marker.
IMHO this will end as a war of religion primarily fought much like the Crusades of bygone Centuries. It will be Islam against the rest of the Judeo-Christian world. Understanding the underpinning principals of Islam may result in it being forbidden as a practiced religion. Islam will always return to the tenants of conquer by the sword. To prevent that, it must be forbidden.
Condemn me for saying this, but I will pass on to Heaven believing that Islam is Satan’s greatest success.
Provoked I'm beyond that Grizzly.
I will be talking back too! Believe you me!
great post Grizz... but you should have let me ask the good people a few questions
Monica,
Thank you for reporting on this. It is SO important to shine the light of truth on these cockroaches.
I just wonder what, if anything, the Phillie media had to say about this "dialogue"?
Karen
Hi Monica, Here in London yesterday a Muslim that was on a march to protest against those cartoons, said the west does not want to upset 1.2 billion Muslims!
They are trying terror tactics in the numbers game, the twats! I never knew that single shot rifles and handguns were still in such a great use! LOL
The thing is they are multiplying at a very fast rate in European countries that has lost the will and ability to shut the door to those who would be a future threat. The time has surely come to ban Muslim immigration into non-Muslim countries for the sake of their own security and long-term survival. Can’t work what the problem is! If you want to join a club you abide by the rules of that club. You can’t start changing them because you want to play a different game, which no one at the club has played before!
It’s the same with countries, let them join those countries, that play their game! Let them emigrate to Islamic countries if they can not conform or take on the life styles of the host nations they now wish to join. It like letting wartime Nazis emigrate to non German occupied countries, to carry on the persecution of the Jews! The risk is now too high to let them into the USA, at the numbers they are found in European countries. Does the world and especially the USA not remember what atrocities they carried out in the name of their peaceful religion Islam, 9/11!
You simply cannot afford to let them in any more and start changes and influencing changes, that are detrimental to your long term security and free way of life! Because of them and many foreign criminal gangs now operating in the UK we are bound for a Big Brother State here in the UK!
See my latest rant on what I’m referring to! No one seem to give a shit here about how all these outside influences have changed the UK forever!
http://where-sparks-fly.blogspot.com/
Thanks for the links and welcome all visitors. I appreciate your stopping by.
I have to work this afternoon and evening and I will be able to respond to your comments tonight.
At my local college, an Arab "historian" is coming to speak about how Arabs preceded Columbus to the New world by over 400 years, intermarrying with the Iroquois, even becoming princes!
How your tax dollars are being spent, folks.
Great investigative reporting, G-Mama! The Barbarians are not only at the gate, they are here among us. And we have to send them packing. A pluralistic, tolerant democracy only works when all its major groups are pluralistic and tolerant, which Islam is not.
I agree: Muslims should leave the West, and we should halt any further immigration here by the followers of Muhammad.
Just leaving some good news here...
The latest on the Flight 93 Memorial, from Error Theory:
...Interestingly, there expected announcement of final approval for the crescent design never came. Did our advance contact with reporters, who read our information and were doing advance interviews, scare the announcement off? Did the twenty minutes I spent explaining the design's terrorist-memorializing features to one of Interior's communications officers have some effect?
More info at the above link!
Scary, scary stuff. I need a bunker.
We have to think about it and we have to face it Steve.
I have never met a moderate muslim myself. I was hoping to meet one this weekend.
We can't deport them - most were born and raised in the US. They converted and I'm sure many were converted with the poisonous wahhabi brand of islam. They are citizens (as they iterated at the meeting) and they are 1.2 billion strong in the world. It seems to be important to them to keep mentioning that number: 1.2 billion.
I hadn't heard of a MA blasphemy law before this weekend, but if it does exist it's probably a couple of hundrend years old and hasn't been used for almost that long.
There were no surprises - everything said was what I have been hearing (on the internet mind you - not in the MSM...) but it was freaky to witness it firsthand.
Yes - and I think they were on their best behavior and trying very hard to appear reasonable. The Imam just couldn't help himself though -- he just sounded nuts.
This is going to get ugly. I hate to think what is in store. I do not condemn you old soldier.
Thanks for all of the support. Troll I am sorry I didn't want you to go to the microphone. We were not prepared to confront these people properly. We need to get our ducks in a row.
There were several news cameras there - they packed up and left after the heated exchange with Jen. I have seen nothing on the news -- although I'm sure more important things were happening. (Dick Cheney you know...)
I don't understand it either sparky - but we were not raised the way the muslims are raised and we certainly were not indoctrinated the way the wahhabi muslims are indoctrinated. I'm sure they believe that they must convert the world they have no care for western ideas or freedom. The point to them is islam for the entire planet. The criminals in the prison system here are prime candidates for wahhabism - they are already filled with hatred and it is an easy way to channel that hatred and anger. They already feel 'OPPRESSED' and willing to have any excuse to blame someone else and also kill people for no good reason. The repeated stating of the number: 1.2 billion muslims seemed a threat tactic to me as well. I think we will be hearing that more and more in our attempted 'dialogue' with the muslims.
I support Bush and I disagree with him on 2 issues. The border problem/illegals - and his constant insistence that islam is a religion of peace.
Good heavens about the historian. Unreal. I'm flabbergasted.
I am no reporter - LOL! I'm just telling you what the Kerayzees said! LOL!
Honey I don't know if we need bunkers, extra guns and ammo, I don't know. I hope that it doesn't come to that...Pray to God that it doesn't.
I am SO upset about the Flight 93 memorial. They have to stop this design - what has come of it? When I read the link it didn't look good. I am addled still from my brush with the ugliness of the truth.
I appreciate all of the links, encouragement and feedback - God Bless America.
LOL!! I hear ya on choice number 4!
I hate the way they try to play us off with our democratic values, forming little sodding groups, having meetings then refusing to engage in debate, whilst blasting us about free speech. Well done for going along. Ayaan Hirshi said something which struck me - she said you have to combat stupidity (within the 'slim circle) with ridicule. I have images of me standing next to you when that mother in her sheet was spouting off and saying "Sorry love what was that? Couldnt quite catch that. No. Nope. Sorry. its all just a NOISE"
Alison - it's funny that you mention that because as the prolific, fully hooded person was speaking at the microphone and advocating violence someone said, 'Is someone saying something? I don't see them.'
I am afraid the next time they will probably be more sophisticated. After all they will want to present the loving peacful image until it is too late. Your report is very revealing.
Monica and Troll,
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to attend that thing and reporting back to us on it.
I think that the Robed Replicator that stepped up to the mike to trash the infidel probably did more for us than for her side, in that every time they open their mouths, very revealing stuff falls out. Eventually, people will catch on.
Gina, AOW, Stogie,
You all have the right idea. The beauty of the thing is that, if we played our cards right (not the way we are doing with our borders and ports), we could get rid of many of them with very little, if any, change in the law.
The whole process concerns whether or not we take our oaths seriously. We have oaths of naturalization, of political office, of civil servant positions, of the military, etc. etc.
There is no way that a believing, practicing Muslim can take any of those oaths and be bound by them. They are bound only by Islam, and it prohibits unreserved loyalty to anything not sanctioned by Islam.
They have therefore perjured themselves, and that's a crime. Since they cannot swear loyalty to the United States and its Constitution, they cannot become citizens, hold many political offices, join the military, hold Civil Service positions, etc.
If we only had the guts and the integrity to take our oaths seriously, we could make a pretty good start on a solution to the problem.
Re the 1.2 billion Muslims! Why they should spout off these numbers and expect everyone to be running around the like headless chickens in fright.
Just because there is more of them does not mean they would win an all out war against the Christian/ Judaism western world! That’s why I made the point about the antique firearms! We do have weapons that can take out mass armies if it came to it! But if they are living in your countries the task of eliminating them becomes more messy and complicated if they start to go down their warring path that they seem destined to make. They would no way win an all out war, with the military might of a combined western world alliance.
The danger is if they get hold of the Nukes, after all they can’t wait to meet their makers!
Here in the UK today in a national newspaper a story revealed that a survey was carried out that showed Muslim in the UK were in support of Sharia Law, and all that beholds, 4 in 10 Muslim would favour the introduction here in the UK! Also 1 in 5 Muslim expressed sympathy with the London bombers here back in July 2005! Story from the Daily Express February 20 2006.
Free speech is under attack in Europe the Austrians have jailed, a British Historian who does not believe the Holocaust was never carried out! This guy who is wrong, there is enough evidence to show there were death camps and gassing of the Jews and others.
But to jail this guy for his belief is wrong! Someone once said I may not agree with what you said but I will fight for your rights to say so! I feel this is the beginning of a big brother Europe, let alone the UK.
“David Irving, the infamous British war historian, is today sitting in an Austrian jail, accused of denying the Nazi Holocaust. So why is an American Jewish academic who dramatically crushed Irving in the British courts saying he should be released?”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4578534.stm
Sparky,
When you say if they get hold of the Nukes, did you forget about Pakistan which not only has the Nukes but likes to share?
There's a lot of things being said on this thread that I disagree with.
1.) First, Islam is nothing more than a cult of personality that claimed legitimacy through the sword.
This is as silly as modern-day jihadists complaining about the retaking of Spain from the Moors. Yes, religions have often spread through violence. Shall we recount the misadventures of the Christian and Orthodox religions?
2.) "I would sooner serve no god as to serve allah. Either way, I would assure my destiny - Hell."
Assuming you are Christian, Allah is the same as your god, Jehovah. Yes, Allah can be vengeful, but has anyone read Genesis lately?
3.) They need to be deported all of them ...and I am not being prejudice , its a matter of survival ..
[...]
Deport them NOW!
[...]
One of my best friends in high school was named Ali Abid. He was a Muslim and, like many Americans, fully secular (well, he didn't eat pork, so almost completely secular). The head of the conservative club in high school was a devout Muslim, and he wasn't the head of the conservative club because he wanted to behead the sodomites or enshroud women. He wanted what most of you want: lowered taxed, fiscal responsibility, school choice.
Ah, but these are noble exceptions, you respond, absolutely overwhelmed by the majority of Muslims, who are crazed. I doubt it, but maybe you're right. But isn't this the ultimate "throwing out the baby with the bathwater" response?
Never assume that the most vocal members of a community are representitive. Sure, many Iranis are nuts. But American Muslims? Less so.
Oh and one last thing:
There is no way that a believing, practicing Muslim can take any of those oaths and be bound by them. They are bound only by Islam, and it prohibits unreserved loyalty to anything not sanctioned by Islam.
You're not on firm legal ground- this is a Bill of Attainder, so far from not having to change any laws to deport "them" on these grounds, you'd have to repeal one of the few civil liberties protected in the actual body of the Constitution.
I realize I'm in the minority here, but I disagree vociferously with what has been said here. Actually, much of it reminds me of the discussions on left-wing blogs talking about the "American Taliban" whenever Pat Robertson spouts something stupid.
Blimey Alan I forgot about them! At least they seem a little more stable than the likes of Iran or Hamus! I really mean the rogue countries giving the Nukes to Islamic suicide bombers who can’t wait to meet all those virgins in heaven. Who is Pakistan sharing nukes with or the info how to make them?
If they are giving nukes OR INFO to nutters they are surely leaving themselves open to a pre-emptive nuclear strike from India or the west at some stage, all scary stuff start digging now! LOL
Steven - no we cannot deport them. Most are American citizens.
CAIR is an organization that deserves any criticism it gets. This meeting was an open meeting and was supposed to be a discussion with a variety of Muslims and the public. They did not want to hear any dissent and in fact shut the dissenters down.
I have been (and still am) searching high and low for the 'moderate' Muslims that I have been told are out there. Dr. Rishi seemed to be a reasonable man until he started trying to sell dhimmitude as a viable alternative for the kafir. Mansoor Ijaz seems to be reasonable.
Any other takers? Let's have a REAL frank and open discussion. It could involve some powerful feelings and some difficult, if not offensive, moments. The ladies from CAIR did not want that and did not allow it. The Imam's flunkies would hear nothing of it. The 'Robed Replicator' thought Muslims needed to be doing in America what they're doing in Europe.
Steve - go to an open meeting if CAIR sponsors one. You will see what we're up against and it is not pretty.
Welcome to the truth...
Kermit
Sparky,
Please see the Wikipedia article on Abdul Qadeer Khan which says:
Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan is a Pakistani engineer widely regarded as the father of Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme. In January 2004, he confessed to having been involved in an international network of clandestine nuclear proliferation from Pakistan to Libya, Iran and North Korea. On February 5, 2004, General Pervez Musharraf announced that he had pardoned Khan.
Oh. My. God. We are f*cked.
Have you heard where some want their own laws here in the UK? Sharia Laws. Laws just for them. Oh. Joy.
I believe that the Crusades were in response to the violent spread of Islam. What's wrong with it I don't understand -- as much as they've TRIED to make me understand that it was a terrible thing, the Crusades. Sure it was brutal - sometimes you have to be brutal. Sometimes you can't be polite. Sometimes you have to hurt someone if they are intent on hurting you. It's like I teach the girls: There are bullies out there who understand nothing but brute force. We do not like using brute force but will and must if we are put into that position. Only if we are put into that position though. (The 5 y/old had some difficulty with that concept as she was going around punching kids in the head for no good reason but she's got the finer points of it down, now. LOL!)
I'm tellin' ya - these maniac Islamists are too crazy and too stupid to understand Americans. I'm tellin' ya again - this is going to get ugly.
Alan - I appreciate what you're saying about Pakistan. I don't trust the bastards but they're the best we've got. They've had the nuke for years, it's a moot point. Wikipedia is a crap source. I don't argue with what you've quoted here - but in general I don't trust Wikipedia. Musharref has put his neck out big time and he has to get a point or two for that. Agree or not agree?
Because Pakistan got the nuke almost 20 y/ago is no reason to roll over on Iran.
I totally agree with that.
You can use Wikipedia - I just don't trust it. Use The Weekly Standard! LOL!
GM,
I referenced Wikipedia to answer Sparky about Pakistan passing on nuclear know how to Iran. It's a handy source, but I'll use whatever you recommend.
The point is that none of today's allies are to be trusted. Or, if you prefer, we can use Reagan's "trust but verify" approach. Musharref might be on our side today, but tomorrow he could be another Noriega, Bin Laden or even Saddam.
Monica, I posted a link at JRHOO. Excellant post!
Thank you JRob - I appreciate it much. I appreciate all of the links. And the dialogue.
Alan - you see my response to you somehow came out ahead of your response. Blogspot is such a headache.
I don't need anymore headaches. I'm old and tired and pissed. The islamists are bad enough. I'm going now.
Young Steve,
Don't patronize me because of my age. It's unbecoming of you.
Please keep in mind that just because you disagree with a statement doesn't necessarily mean it's false. Your opinion (like the rest of us) is the result of your education (the bastion of liberalism), bias, and news sources to form opinions.
Agreed. Also keep in mind that you're slaying the wrong dragon. I have not been brainwashed by the bastion of liberalism, as you make it out to seem. In fact, a quick review of my previous comments on this site or on my own would determine that I would probably be labelled rather right-of-center, although I am certainly no conservative.
Keep in mind that your youth does also play somewhat of a role especially when it comes to ideology. Life's experiences have a way of teaching us things even the best (non-biased) education.
Agreed. And I really hate to resort to this argument, because I think it the lowest of cop outs, but I'm going to use it here anyway: I've had Muslim friends over for dinner. I've talked about global politics with them. I've met the seemingly elusive "moderate Muslim", who actually isn't all that hard to find. Just don't go looking at CAIR meetings. I've tutored the childen of Muslim parents, who I've met, and I have come to the determination (perhaps naive) that these families aren't simply lying in wait for the opportunity to impose shari'a. Not in America, anyway.
Islam has been called "The religion of the sword and hate" since Mohammad “conquered” Mecca (Hegira) about 625 AD. After he died in 632, in a short time western Asia and N Africa (Moors) came under Islam through violence. Soon to follow: Syria (634 AD), Jerusalem (638 AD) {notice no mention of Palestinians}, Spain (711 AD). (Reference: Merrill F. Unger, TH.D., PH.D 1967)
I do not use the sins of the father to castigate the sons. But if you are going to apply these ahistorical standards against Islam, I insist you do so against other religions as well.
If YOUR family were soon to be beheaded by these Islamo-maniacs, would you do nothing?Maybe not as there are plenty of lemmings,
Excuse me, but this is below the belt. I wouldn't be angry if Islamists tried to murder my family? Because I don't want to deport all Muslims from America. Red herring, sir."
but in 732 AD Charles Martel and his brave men at the Battle of Tours turned Islam back and saved Europe for Christianity. In other words, Islam started it FIRST just as they are again doing it today.
But he started it! In 73 f'in 2! We must avenge the, er, near-defeats of our ancestors!
It's just going to take years and the many dead here in the USA for the thick skulls to understand the threat we indeed do face today. The liberal argument of "religions spreading through violence" to justify today’s Islamofacist movement is dangerous and wrong. What you're actually saying is that because it happened 1000 years ago with Christianity (to counter the Islamic Conquest), it's okay for Islam or ANY new religion today.
You're missing the point. I have never sought to justify any Islamofascist argument. In fact, I can find of good a recent reasons to argue for combating the threat vigorously. But I'm not going to 1.) go back to 1200 or 732 or 621 to justify my arguments, and 2.) I'm not going to argue that all Muslims should be deported, or interned.
You're justifying the terrorism now in the 21st century that you and your loved ones may fall victim to! This is what’s meant when it was stated “liberalism is a mental disorder”.
Once again, you are missing the thrust of my argument. I'm not justifying terrorism. I'm not even justifying an ideology. I have no love of radical Islamists, and anyone with even a passing knowledge of my stance would understand that. But I refuse the argument that the only way to combat radical Islamism is to treat all Muslims as the enemy. A great number are, but not all.
And enough of this "liberalism is a mental disorder" Coulter/Savage/Hannity schtick. I supported, and continue to support vociferously, the Iraq War. I was one of the first to publish the Danish Muhammed cartoons. I was one of the first to call for a military strike against Iran. it's the little digs like this that turn me away from politics. It seems to me that the gist of your argument is my youth + indoctrination = liberalism, because I balk at the suggestion that Muslim-Americans should be rounded up and deported tomorrow, and because I don't think we should encourage a worldwide religious conflagaration just for the sake of standing up against radical Islam.
The West's ability to survive this conflict is dependent upon its ability to appeal to the enemy. I find nothing appealing about a priori assumptions about American Muslims, whom you know primarily through their most vocal and extreme group. Unfortunately, it is a self-fulfilling prophesy to say that there are no Muslim moderates, because the more you base your opinion on this "fact", the more you are going to drive them away.
great post and yes we have to think about it and do something. It won't go away by wishing.
Steve: Your age is exactly a valid point. The final resolution of this horrible conflict may be left to your generation if we can't fix it first.
It took 50 years to win the Cold War and that was with a mostly united country. I don't know that we have 50 years to work on this problem. I hope for your sake we don't wait that long.
But "not to think about it" would be dangerous to your health. Unless you want to be a dhimmi.
Monica: You and Troll are to be commended for going to this event. Just by your presence it sends a signal to these whackos that we are not just going to roll over and let them turn us into slaves.
Too bad you didn't turn the Troll loose. That would have been fun to watch.
Steve - I do believe that your 'it's best not to think about it' was a humorous reply.
I am glad that you know MANY moderate followers of islam. Would you please tell them something from me? Tell them it is time for them to speak up. There are millions in America who would get behind them. Go to a CAIR public meeting and see what they are saying with no other Muslim (or ANYONE apparently...)there to refute them.
It's TIME. Goddamnit it's TIME to get off of our asses and say something back. All of us - no matter what the politics or the belief. These radical bastards have to understand that this is not going to go down here in the US the way it is over in Europe. The crazies have got behind the counter and they're trying to run the store. Your moderate muslim friends will suffer just as much as the rest of us if we don't stop it.
The Saudi's are promoting Wahhabi sect islam in this country. Damage has been done and it has to stop.
Steve is damn smart and no lefty.
I will be posting all I can find about people standing up against radical islam Beth. There is an interesting symposium coming up in DC soon.
Mike - I will let Troll loose. You have to understand how pissed off we were - we would not have come off very well. Not only was I pissed, I was floored by the fact that what I've been reading about these crazies is true to a T! Gawd. I'm still upset.
Oh! Jim Boventino do not apologize - not for one minute!
What you related about Moslem/Muslim was fascinating. I actually go to Wikipedia once in awhile. It just bothers me that people can change stuff around - so I don't like to use it as a source.
Monica, the post, the comments, everything here - so so informative, so important - so scary! Thanks for shedding more light on this.
Steve,
You quoted from my comment:
"There is no way that a believing, practicing Muslim can take any of those oaths and be bound by them. They are bound only by Islam, and it prohibits unreserved loyalty to anything not sanctioned by Islam."
Please re-read and reconsider your criticism.
While I would personally love to see Muslims deported in droves, my comment talked about restricting them from holding jobs requiring an oath to do things forbidden by Islam, things like swearing or affirming to defend the Constitution.
This prohibition would keep them from certain policy-making/implementing kinds of employment, which would be a start in protecting our country against infiltration through dawa, kitman, and taqiyya. It would prevent incidents like that early in the war in Iraq, where the convert fragged his officers; it would prevent incidents like that of the Muslim FBI agent who refused to "rat on" fellow Muslims who were suspected of having knowledge of plans to harm this country, and it would prevent the deliberate mis-translation of potentially helpful documents written in Arabic.
I do think that if we took our oaths seriously, there might be made a case for stripping many naturalized citizens of their citizenship and proceding from there. Would that include deportation? If there are any lawyers out there, I would love to hear from them on this issue.
Certainly, as a sovereign nation, it is our choice as to which people to admit to our country; we already have certain restrictions in place, and in the interests of national security, it would make sense to expand them to cover current conditions.
If your Muslim friends reject Islam to the degree that they can, in good faith, take an oath of loyalty to the man-made institutions of this country, from the protection of the Constitution to proper behavior in the military, then they should have the integrity to reject the whole thing, and either become an atheist (like Ali Sina and, I believe, Hugh Fitzgerald), or adopt some other religion which does not forbid loyalty to things that are man-made and not found in the Qur'an.
Harrison is right when he/she points out that when pressed, every Muslim believes that Islam should rule the world. Their moral code is not based on "life" as the "standard of the good," it is based on the "spread of Islam" as the "standard of the good." This is why they regard spreading Islam by any means, including murder and mayhem, as a virtue. This is why they can blow up schoolchildren and then smile at themselves in the mirror the next morning.
They truly aren't like the rest of us, and we would do well to remember that and act accordingly.
Some apostates have pointed out that Muslims - maybe a lot like your friends - can be the nicest neighbors in the world, and at the moment they are "making nice," they feel good about being nice. Then they can change in a nanosecond, and they will, as the apostate said, "slit your throat as soon as come to your barbecue."
You would do well to think about it, Steve; one of these days, one way or another, Mme. Reality will come knocking at your door, and you'll wish you had done so while you still had the time.
Thanks Alan for the link, that guy who is spreading the Nuke knowledge around to the nutters of the world wants taking out, and I don’t mean to a restaurant! LOL
Hats off to Monica and Troll for having the guts to go into one of these Brainwashing sessions, and still come out a non-Muslim in one piece!
All western countries are giving up far too much respect to an alien ideology/religion, whatever happen to when in ROME!
I'm sorry you've been sick Skye - I hope that you are feeling better now.
I will let you know if any other events pop up in the future.
Well spoken Jim!
That's exactly why we need to get the study of history back in our schools!!
Amen to that tshsmom. And if the schools won't change - parents are able to make better choices for their kids!
I think this is the best post I've ever read on your blog, Monica, and that's saying quite a bit. Sorry it took me so long to get here to read it.
Steve is not wrong about the existence of true moderate Muslims. (You won't find many at CAIR, though.) I work with a very nice, Muslim guy. On the other hand, I once spoke to his son (16 or so) and something about that made me nervous.
Will he become a jihadi? Probably not, but it's possible, and that's scary. The problem is hard to deal with. There are lots of Quranic justifications for violent jihad and plenty of "devout" Muslims to quote them to an alienated, angry young man.
Thanks for coming by Abe, thanks for the compliment - and no need to apologize!
I keep hearing about the moderate Muslims but I haven't met any personally. I see some stirrings - things happening in the public square (I guess you could call it...) that shows moderates may be standing up against the islamists. They need to do that - they will suffer right alongside the rest of us if the jihadis are allowed to shape the way we think and the way we talk.
All of the Muslims I have met personally have been difficult to deal with. They shut themselves off and separate themselves from us infidels. Apparently there is quite a large Moslem population in Philly. Our Imam at the meeting gives an idea of what they are being inculcated with.
keep up the good work. expose this cult for what it is. http://terror-watch.net/
From one kaffir to another - thank you English one. You keep up the good work too and thanks for visiting.
Thank you Luppo. I was going through it with the Italian to English dictionary. NOTHING made sense!
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